2018年9月9日星期日

新聞雜錦 百感交雜

我習慣看明報, 都看了幾十年。今天的即時新聞有此標題:

反東北13子刑期終極上訴得直 吳秋北批法官是社會罪人 嘆法治墮落

內文一段有此描述:

吳秋北前晚於facebook談及事件,指「終院法官竟做老好人又遂其不甘,予釋放,縱其惡。這豈是愛護青年!實在是害死青年!」他表示,這幫「罪犯」為社會埋下「定時炸彈」,將「毒害一代青年」,指摘「法官老爺已成青年殺手,社會罪人!人們應想想法治是怎樣墮落的!」

若果這位不是工聯會頭頭, 我都不想批評。潮流興講言論自由, 吳會長有權發表偉論, 街市佬一樣有權論政、論法律、論AI、論論盡盡...you name it. 「遂其不甘」? 不甘甚麼?  雖然終院13子案判詞還未頒佈, 但內容大概都可以估到, 因為7個月前頒佈的雙學3子案已定了調,  

123.  The sentencing principles which the Court of Appeal laid down in cases of unlawful assembly involving violence (CA Judgment at [151]) were therefore entirely appropriate, namely:
“(1) In accordance with general sentencing principles, the court will have regard to all the actual circumstances of the case and the seriousness of the facts pertaining to the commission of the offence. Appropriate weight will then be accorded to each applicable sentencing factor, and a sentence that is commensurate with the offence will then be imposed. The same principles apply to cases of unlawful assembly involving violence.
(2) Although the definition of unlawful assembly in section 18 of the Public Order Ordinance is relatively simple, the range of factual situations covered is wide. The seriousness of the facts involved varies from case to case and may, depending on the actual circumstances, run from the extremely trivial to the extremely serious. Incidents involving violence are certainly much closer to the serious end of cases, but the facts of different cases still vary. So even for the more serious cases there will still be a spectrum of seriousness. Within the spectrum, the court will accord appropriate weight to the applicable sentencing factors based on the actual circumstances of the case and the seriousness of the facts pertaining to the commission of the offence.
(3) On the basic premise that the public order must be maintained, and taking into account the gravamen of the offence of unlawful assembly, the court has to consider the factor of deterrence in sentencing. As to how much weight it should accord to this factor, the court has to have regard of the actual circumstances of the case.
(4) If the case is of a relatively minor nature, such as when the unlawful assembly was unpremeditated, small in scale, involving very little violence, and not causing any bodily harm or damage to property, the court may give proportionally more weight[101]to such factors as the personal circumstances of the offender, his motives or reasons for committing the offence and the sentencing factor of rehabilitation while proportionally less weight to the sentencing factor of deterrence.
(5) If the case is a serious one, such as when the unlawful assembly involving violence is large-scale or it involves serious violence, the court would give the two sentencing factors, namely punishment and deterrence, great weight and give very little weight or, in an extreme case, no weight to factors such as the personal circumstances of the offender, his motives or reasons of committing the offence and the sentencing factor of rehabilitation.
(6) After the appropriate weight has been accorded to all the applicable sentencing factors, the court would then impose a sentence on the offender that is commensurate with the case.”
(FACC8/2017)

在雙學3子案, 終院事實上是接納了上訴庭判刑考慮的宗旨, 講到尾是上訴庭加刑幅度太大, 主要參考英國更嚴重案情的罰則, 而妄顧香港判刑的案例。故此, 東北13子的判刑終極上訴, 一早就可以預期是用雙學3子案同樣思維來判。這次13子刑期上訴得直, 熟悉刑事法的人應該不感驚訝。有乜好嘈? 講乜法治墮落? 批評也要批評得有理據, 而不是喊口號。連批評都不懂就不如打下秋風, 淨係話做乜咁輕手, 咪瞎扯法治來講, 連法治是甚麼也不懂就呱呱叫。所以這些建制得來質素不高的人只會幫倒忙。

另一則明報即時新聞:

民主牆粗口標語遭強制移除 中大學生會譴責校方越權違規

中文大學和教育大學學生會代表,日前在開學禮致辭時均有提到「港獨」。特首林鄭月娥譴責及不點名批評他們散播不實和違反《基本法》言論。中大民主牆上周二(4日)貼上含粗口字眼的16字標語,不滿林鄭月娥批評學生言辭,「學生講乜,關你X事」。學生會指,標語下方有清晰列明署名及張貼日期,內容亦符合民主牆使用守則,所以保留標語,可是兩日後校方以「受管理層壓力,要清除粗口標語」為由移走。

學生哥又侃侃而談言論自由了, 有本事就貼張有理據的大字報, 而不是示弱式宣示器官, 咁鍾意以器官相贈, 就記得填張器官捐贈咭, 不過話時話, 又好似無人要嗰啲器官喎。唔知有無人寫論文研究今時今日大學生用粗口的普及性, 我都好有興趣知研究結果。唉! 都唔怕失禮死人。不知醜陋為何物, 言論自由聲鏗鏘。

57 則留言:

  1. 捐贈器官可以做研究用途嘅。個人覺得背後嘅問題係越來越多青年學子唔識尊重人。粗口常態化只係其中一個表現。

    Gato

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  2. 我家隔鄰是ive,我經常幫趁它的食堂,可以免費聼粗口送飯,尤其是女學生更甚。又是想當年我這些老鬼年代,女仕講粗口的多數是出黎捞或街市婆之軰,我偶然講句仆街都被老婆大人鬧到仆街,何况講粗口?或者是時代真的不同了,守護廣東話嘛!本土嘛!

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  3. https://billsiu.blogspot.com/2017/10/blog-post_14.html

    大學生講粗口的普遍性,十多年前就有硏究。較近期嘅係對中學生講粗囗嘅研究。

    早幾個月去前去了港大借書,在地鐵站上大學本部嘅升降機中,一班女大學生連幾個男生,d女仔嘅粗口在耳仔環迴立體、左飛右插。不過都唔係最粗果幾款粗口。都無乜好講,只係年代不同,各自做番自己合適嘅嘢。

    Terry

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    1. 我都忘了寫過那一篇。

      Terry, 你認為這年代不論場合講粗口也合適?

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    2. 只是說女仔講粗口,就如女仔食煙一樣,確實常見。在不適當場合爆粗當然不對。但什麼是適合嘅場合,說什麼粗口,會隨着年代有不同的轉變。如seven, nine up 這些,變成儍呀、廢話嘅代用詞。

      Terry

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    3. Terry哥, 叫得粗口, 已反咉貶斥性。

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    4. 用粗口用到出神入化果位:一個已故黃霑,一個仲響度的蕭若元...

      但人地都唔會響個學府度(不論小中大學)爆粗去攻擊人啦...只有無墨水既人,理虧詞窮既人才會用呢D粗言去加強自己信心...
      民主牆上講明唔可以人身攻擊,唔可以用粗口,個主理人竟然可以"無視"仲聲大夾惡去鬧番人,証明了呢班人的管理質素真係差到為了個人私利可以連規矩都去更改...真正的"侵侵式民主"(你係民佢做主)擁戴者也...

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  4. 回覆
    1. 兔哥,你爆粗,係常態,無笑位噃。

      八叔公字

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    2. 當別人無笑位, 佢自己躊躇滿志。

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  5. 堂堂現任香港工會聯合會會長, 無端端展示非理性一面, 真係唔知做乜, 在宣誓效忠?

    //中大民主牆:「(中大)學生講乜,關你(林鄭月娥)X事」//
    林鄭月娥乜水? 讀屎片的該部分中大學生睇來並唔知道, 是..
    中文大學監督, 監督Chancellor, 校長只是Vice-Chancellor
    BBTW

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  6. //學生會譴責校方嚴重越權及違規,干預民主牆管理,為民主牆加上潛規則,「開了審查民主牆的先例」,令人擔憂學生會在文化廣場管理權。學生會重申,粗口不應是這次事件重點;校方以破壞中大形象為由,將來可以禁止某政見或某學生標語。//

    對「(粗言穢語達至有違) 理性及互相尊重原則」這隱含條款沒有意識、也不接受.
    粗口不應是這次事件重點? 學生辯論上揀飲擇食, 自欺欺人, 若「將來可以禁止某政見或某學生標語」, 真係多謝你班師兄帶挈、自毀長城!
    BBTW

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    1. 粗口不是大字報的重點, 但大字報沒有論點, 所以粗口變成重點。

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    2. 無錯............... 只餘下粗口.
      BBTW

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    3. 標少,第時响法庭,恐怕佢地會對老爺爆粗...

      到時老爺要鎖佢入冊果陣,又會用"言論自由"去開脱了...

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    4. 無事嘅, 楊副庭長以前訓斥過啲法官(in the judicial officers' conference), 話被告X你咪動不動就判人藐視法庭, 我想派阿兔哥去試下。

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    5. 拎把菜刀係法庭舞都可以打甩刑恐,有時真係吹唔脹。

      http://cablenews.i-cable.com/ci/videopage/news/534301/%E5%8D%B3%E6%99%82%E6%96%B0%E8%81%9E/%E5%85%A7%E5%9C%B0%E6%BC%A2%E6%8C%81%E8%8F%9C%E5%88%80%E5%A8%81%E5%9A%87%E6%B3%95%E5%AE%98%E6%A1%88%E5%88%91%E6%AF%80%E7%BD%AA%E6%88%90

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    6. 唔通Don So同Wilson Chan唔妥? 真係要劈落去搞到Wounding 17先得?

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    7. 不過咁, 你唔信法官無得好講@@
      //法官指被告願付上更大更高代價追求公義,他當日的所作所為並非恐嚇或傷害任何人,而是執迷不誤,想傷害自己//
      BBTW

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    8. 如果我想自殺, 起碼都劈自己一嘢, 就算唔劈至少都鬧「你個狗官, 我死畀你睇」, 邊有咁劈枱劈凳架?

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    9. 唔知, 睇過片(但冇)先敢講,
      //又用刀劈向法官席前的桌子,其後到灣仔警署自首... 基於被告招認法官書記對法官桌子上花痕的「證供」//
      隨便散場, 但又幾「大件事」(法庭有戲上演)而又要公費整枱!
      你話呢事件傳開去, 係事實, 你話唔「追究」, 官府衙門以後仲有運行???
      都話因為冇片, 以上純屬虛構, 如有雷同, 實屬社會不幸.
      以上「虛構」, 便套不入「劈自己一嘢、鬧狗官」, 係有少少失望.
      BBTW

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    10. 呢單被告刑事毁壞罪判坐16個月,真唔明白點解反東北唔告呢條罪而去告非法集结罪?

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    11. 住宅門口嗌交, 刑毁鐵閘隨時ONE/BO不留案底,
      呢單如屬上面"虛構案情", 只有工具(但有咪有囉,已不identify為管有攻擊性武器)及司法門口(面子?)較嚴重, 唔自首隨時冇人跟, 16個月是超重.
      只可以話塘邊鶴, 資料不足~
      BBTW

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    12. BBTW,判16個月確是超重,鬼叫同人不同命,同命不同官咩!

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    13. 戴志成等3人衝擊立法會大樓案, 其中一條罪是刑事毀壞(cost of repair $580,000)

      47. There is no basis on Mr Kwok’s submission that the culpability of the offence of unlawful assembly was somehow “subsumed” by that of the criminal damage offence so that a shorter sentence than 3½ months should be imposed on the unlawful assembly offence. In the present case, in view of the extensive damage done to Legislative Council Complex, a starting point of 3 months for Criminal Damage (Charge 1) could be said to be on the light side and a more appropriate starting point is one of 6 months.
      (HCMA 579/2015)

      班太話量刑起點為6隻。Don So點可以用18隻做起點?我找過也找不到上訴庭對此控罪頒過判刑指引, 本案刑期上訴會獲批。如果接納條友想自殺的講法, 無aggravating factor咁判, 只能考慮劈爛張枱的修理費, 點判到16隻?

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    14. 如果覺得戴志誠熟口熟面, 另一原是終審法院在雙學3子案的判刑上訴也提及:

      95. As illustrations of the range of sentences imposed for the offence of taking part in an unlawful assembly, see:

      (1) In HKSAR v Wong Yuk Man [2015] 1 HKLRD 132, fines of HK$4,800 were substituted for suspended prison terms on appeal against sentence for two Legislative Councillors taking part in a protest who were convicted for an unlawful assembly consisting of a line of protesters moving slowly step by step in a line up to a police line and finally pressing their bodies against the police line to push it, but only for a short time.

      (2) In HKSAR v Wong Yeung Tat [2016] 4 HKLRD 445, an appeal against conviction was dismissed in respect of a conviction for unlawful assembly in respect of which a fine of HK$5,000 was imposed. The unlawful assembly consisted of disorderly behaviour as part of a group of about 10 who rushed towards one of the entrances of the Legco complex and bumped into police and Legco security officers, resulting in five officers sustaining injuries.

      (3) In HKSAR v Au Kwok Kuen [2010] 3 HKLRD 371, an appeal against conviction was dismissed in respect of a conviction for unlawful assembly by six defendants, who took part in a protest by a group of about 26 and who charged a police cordon set up to prevent the protesters entering private premises. Two of the defendants were each given community service orders for 60 hours and four of the defendants were each bound over to be of good behaviour (in the sum of HK$2,000 for a period of 18 months).

      (4) In HKSAR v Chung Kin Ping & Ors, unrep., HCMA 296/2015 (12 May 2017),[92] appeals against conviction by three defendants for unlawful assembly were dismissed in cases in which the magistrate had imposed community service orders of 80 hours. The unlawful assembly occurred when the defendants struggled with the police and tried to remove Mills barriers placed by the police to maintain order during a street march.

      (5) In HKSAR v Yip Po Lam [2014] 2 HKLRD 777, appeals against sentence by two defendants in respect of suspended sentences imposed for taking part in an unlawful assembly were dismissed. Sentences of four weeks’ imprisonment suspended for 12 months were imposed for their taking part in an unlawful assembly involving more than 150 persons who had been taking part in an unauthorised street protest march and who, on the two defendants’ direction, charged a police cordon designed to encircle the protesters.

      (6) In HKSAR v Tai Chi Shing & Ors [2016] 2 HKC 436, the defendants pleaded guilty to taking part in an unlawful assembly. The magistrate reviewed community service orders she had initially imposed and substituted custodial sentences based on a starting point of six months’ imprisonment. An appeal against sentence was dismissed. The unlawful assembly had involved an intimidating protest at the Legco complex by about 100 persons and acts by the defendants described as riotous in nature, if not a riot by legal definition. The three defendants had variously admitted damaging a glass door of the complex, charging the glass wall of the complex with a Mills barrier and throwing stones and kicking the glass doors of the complex. The costs of repair of the damage were about HK$600,000. The judge held that, in the circumstances, an immediate custodial sentence was appropriate, even for a first-time offender.

      (7) In Chan Sam v The Queen [1968] HKLR 401, an appeal against a sentence of 18 months’ imprisonment for unlawful assembly was dismissed. The conviction arose in the aftermath of the 1967 riots from the defendant’s actions as part of a crowd of about 200 protesters. The defendant had used a chair to attack one of the police officers who came to disperse the crowd.
      (FACC 8/2017)

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    15. 標少寫呢件"法庭劈椅"事的長度同開過另一篇無分別...XD

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    16. 三個臭皮匠, 包攬上訴, sure win, 上!!!

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    17. 揾人做pro bono都好難, 無政治價值。點包攬? 條友窮等人家, 無錢點會有得包。

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  7. 有時法官的智慧,與小市民真係好脫節,恐嚇罪不成立,作為小市民真是不理解,而陳官及書記等真不對,應留在庭內勸說被告不要做出傷害自己的行為,而不應走人,下次蘇官若遇上同樣情況千祈不要走呀

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    1. 2:12,你説得對呀!如有人想跳樓自殺,警察或消防員一定會勸告,但法官卻採取話之你態度依法辦事,令一個普通小市民更加憎恨政府!

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  8. 標少有否fb account?若有可給多些市民、年青人分享正確法律知識及人生體驗,請不要說你自己是何許人?有否足夠知識跟人分享或討論。
    小弟每天上各社交綱站,查看流言及貼文,得來的結果推論就是98%亂up,由政治人物、博士研究生、碩士生、及一些只有法律學位或是律師而沒有上庭經驗的人發噏風,誤導綱民。為何今天的年青人越來越不像樣?根本上在網絡找不到一個正確持平的平台,
    例子:執業律師:香港刑事檢控專員離開政府後不應當法官,因為他們曾經是刑事檢控,所以在庭上他們只會傾向控方,不會公正。(有大量網民支持他的說法) 這位執業律師沒拿出事實基礎。
    例2:若呂麗瑤誣捏她的教練,為何她的教練不作出回應或控告吕麗瑤誹謗,所以這位學妹得出推論是,她的教練確有侵犯呂麗瑤。這位學妹是某大學四年法律系學生,她的志願是將來成為一個刑事訴訟律師。跟隨她的人約有四萬個,留言大部分說她是對的。問你服未?
    例3:fb關於法律page,題目是(佔領旺角清場藐視法庭案)內容是指雙學三子是無辜,控方及法官沒有足夠證據下將他們定罪。這個專頁的成員有刑事律師有大律師,小弟也曾留言,要他們作出回應,最終沒有回應。
    小弟在這專頁留言: 答辯人有意留在禁制令範圍內,最終有必然性導致阻礙執達吏執行禁制令,若答辯人沒有實質作為阻礙合法代理人執行禁制令,已足夠構成該控罪元素,若答辯人沒有意圖留在禁制令範圍內阻止執達吏人員執法,這實在有為或然內在,在邏輯推論上有點站不住腳。
    整體來說這些人或專頁,每天已塗毒幾十萬網民, 香港的情況只會越來越不智。
    所以希望標少抹去書生之氣,該有先生之為。
    若有冒犯 請標少恕諒。

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    1. 咁睇得起我, 我無權無勢, 邊有能力去拯救黎民。有些盲毛自得其樂, 我也招惹不起, 太花時間。FB帳戶我有, 是dormant那種。我寫blog只在過自己瘾, 犯不着與人論爭。

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    2. 標少千萬咪制呀,班黃屍後生儍架,可以洗板洗到摺埋架!

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    3. 我不會浪費時間搞這些。

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    4. 標少有所不知,小孩或成人沒有正確渠道取得知識,所以今日香港就是變成這樣,梁天琦當天有6萬多票支持,全靠在網上吹,小弟粗略估計最少有三萬票原來自網上,這些威力不容忽視。最可憐的就是一班網民得到正確知識。現在最慘的是高學歷專業人士也在亂吹,整個香港已淪陷了。

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    5. 你估那些人最信我? 就是惹了官非而上完庭證明我講得啱那些。其他網上討論, 怎樣去吹都可以, 我何來有說服力? 所以很多時講法律, 我都引案例, 以證明我不是隨噏。

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    6. 這些法律團體大律師,最弊他們令案例也拿不出來。他們跟你的分別就是這樣明顯。

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    7. 「現在最慘的是高學歷專業人士也在亂吹,整個香港已淪陷了。亅
      風氣在十多年前已是這樣,大勢誰可擋?可能要衰到盡之後才能重生。

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    8. 11月幫梁生上訴那個sc,都被楊副庭長笑住駡,(如控方沒有證人作供,以後所有案件都可以申請永久擱置審訊嗎?
      就首四項強姦罪不成立,第5項強姦控罪必然不成立?什麼邏輯??
      這位sc跟他駱姓師傅的功力,是天淵之別。
      上次也在媒體前亂噏24。

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    9. 822
      不是上訴,而是11月8日重審,涉及另外2名被告的暴動罪案合併審理,須時大約30日。

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    10. 老實講,忠言一定逆耳,很多年青人郁下就話政治迫害、政治打壓或政治檢控,就連那班公民大状都一樣見識而不理會法律觀點,例如咩可以用公眾防擾罪告佔中九子咩?這種潛移默化式向年青人塗毒洗腦,真係多100個標少都攪唔掂!

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    11. Danny哥, 你咪講到我有責任去矯正歪風咁, 我真係好似寫日記咁咋, 我無宏願。

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    12. 標少過份敏感喇!Keep your comfort handling anyway!

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    13. 唔使驚喎到時邀請马鹿幫手掃場邊個洗版邊個死

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    14. 馬鹿英文中文了得粗口又勁誰能匹敵x口

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  9. 「這種潛移默化式向年青人塗毒洗腦」
    大陸最開心。很多人只理立場、不問是非,做鍵盤戰士搞到自己怨氣沖天、有損精神健康。

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  10. 吳揪得沐猴而冠,林鄭正好用來祭旗。

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    1. 我認為回歸以來建制派尤其左派維稳性的暗破壞,較泛民更甚。又是想當殖民地年代政府包括行會是行精英制,但回歸後变成恙太公封神式,例子是劉江華的敗部復活!

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  11. 沒有最離譜,只有更離譜 - - to prosecute ICC judges and prosecutors in the US criminal system, and any company or state that assists an ICC investigation of Americans.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45474864

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  12. 時代唔同啦, 曾任職香港中文大學中國語言及文學系高級講師的歐陽偉豪「Ben Sir」仲會係TVB做節目, 出書, 演講, 大談近似粗口、性器官等字眼及文化, 嘩眾取寵

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