2018年5月14日星期一

新的朋友論

今天終審法院頒佈了探監服務公司職員往荔枝角覊押所聲稱探朋友案的判詞: HKSAR and WAN THOMAS (溫皓竣)&GUAN QIAOYONG (關巧用) FACC Nos. 6 and 7 of 2017。睇到我笑, 無計, 誰職級高, 誰就有道理。

假如標少作奸犯科, 有潛逃風險, 收押在荔枝角等候審訊。一天, 有條友叫馬鹿, akaYoga Bunny, 聲稱以朋友身分來探監, 帶了青邊鮑魚, 龍蝦伊麵, 再加燒鵝髀同一枝大啤(未定罪囚犯可以食自家餐, 不用吃皇家飯), 若果懲教署的人向我核實身分, 我一定會講我識佢係老鼠。唔係喎, 佢話成日喺你個blog留言, 係你網友, 即係你朋友囉, 終審法院話朋友定義廣闊:

40.  Apart from the wide meaning of the word itself, in the context of the Prison Rules, there are practical difficulties in evaluating the quality of relationship that should qualify a person as a “friend” of a prisoner.  Does a friend have to be on intimate or close terms to the prisoner?  Is a Facebook friend, whom the prisoner may never have met, sufficient?  What about other social media contacts or “pen pals” or friends of friends?  As the procedure for visiting prisoners at LCKRC described above shows, there is no practical way in which CSD staff can verify the degree of any claimed friendship.  A prisoner is left to determine who he is prepared to identify as his relatives and friends when he completes the Declared Visitors List and it would not seem realistic for CSD staff to vet this list to ascertain the quality of an asserted friendship.

咁呀, 佢咁好死, 請我食燒鵝髀, friend就friend喇, 但係條友出示身分證(甚至好似Raymond Yu咁, 出示回鄉證), 顯示身分, 我點知馬仔兔仔個真名係乜? 網上啲嘢都可以當真咩? 如果我係黑社會, 親戚就多囉, 又多咗個大佬, 同門兄弟又多, 老表又多, 到其時班公仔佬嚟探監, 個個都可以在關係一欄填上: 親戚。

我都估唔到終院會舉“McKenzie friend”, “next friend”, “friend of the court”, “my learned friend”這些法庭述語為例子來闡釋論據:

39.  The difficulties in defining the relationship of friend as requiring personal acquaintance is further complicated by the general use of the term “friend” to describe a number of what may be relatively impersonal relationships.  Thus, for example, the law recognises a “McKenzie friend” in the context of litigation who is a person who may sit with a litigant in person to give him advice and help him with the presentation of his case.[26] Similarly, under RHC Order 80 rule 2(1), a person under disability may not bring, or make a claim, in any proceedings except by his “next friend”, which capacity does not require a relationship having any particular degree of intimacy.  To take a further example, a “friend of the court” (amicus curiae) does not imply personal friendship between the advocate and the judge.  Nor, of course, is such personal friendship implied by the professional courtesy of barristers referring to each other in court as “my learned friend”.

講到尾如果強調被收押而未被定罪的人應受到支援, 譬如傷殘的祖母不能去探望, 咁都諗埋, 不愧是終審法院大老爺, 心思周密, 勝人一籌:

43.  In those circumstances, if (say) the disabled grandmother of a prisoner awaiting trial wanted to deliver some food that the prisoner particularly liked or to convey a personal message of support to him, for example, it would seem odd if the grandmother could not send her own friend to deliver that food or convey that message...

喂, 畀擔保條友好過喇。

考慮探監公司的職員聲稱是朋友, 究竟有沒有不誠實意念, 終院首先斷估:

54.  Here, there were no guidelines from the CSD as to the meaning of the word, which is undefined in the Prison Rules.  When the representative visiting services conducted by the appellants first came to the attention of the CSD in August 2011, legal advice was sought by the CSD from the Department of Justice concerning that service and it was not until August 2012 that the appellants were arrested.[29]  There was evidence that CSD staff might differ over the meaning of the word.  It is therefore entirely possible that the appellants might have believed that they were “friends” of the prisoners awaiting trial whom they visited within the meaning of the Prison Rules and it does not follow, merely because they did not give evidence, that the prosecution case that they dishonestly misrepresented their status as friends must be accepted.

"Entirely possible", "might have believed", 呢啲係咪叫sheer speculation? 而且, 收費廉宜, 明目張膽, 就合情合理了? 咁收得貴又點?

56. ...The company’s services (described at [9] above) provided at a modest cost were entirely within the purposes for which visits to such prisoners are permitted under the Prison Rules.  Staff of the company openly distributed leaflets outside LCKRC and wore green shirts as a uniform to identify themselves as representatives of the company.  There was no clear consensus as to what the word “friend” in the Prison Rules meant.  In these circumstances, it is a matter of some surprise that the appellants were charged as they were.

荔枝角同一些監房我以前都去過, 若然他朝有日咁唔好彩我入咗去(in a different capacity), 旨意晒你哋, 念在一場網友, 唔好unfriend我。

喂標少, 外邊有班友嚟探你, 個個都叫匿名嘅話喺你啲friend喎, 係咪架? 梗係喇, 所有匿名都係friend, 捐錢嗰啲無名氏都係, 四海之內都係親戚......

61 則留言:

  1. 網絡世界中,就算是毒男一個,都會有數以百計既friend。講開老荔,其實日日都有好多搭口信比走嘅人,咁又算唔算係friend呢?

    回覆刪除
  2. 請教標少,點解會有「探監朋友」呢個行業。

    回覆刪除
  3. 代客探監,每次$120,錢錢錢

    回覆刪除
    回覆
    1. 霍官好嘢,咁離地的判詞都寫得出,「朋友」一個咁common sense的詞語,都可以扮專家,以「法律」方向,寫佢多大家都覺得奇怪的解釋

      刪除
    2. 睇黎會有競爭架啦...
      分分鐘50蚊三次,包送餐送咸書送女,合法架嘛....
      一日唔修例,呢個商機肯定好多人肯做.....

      刪除
    3. friend 嘛, 不過如果忌廉湯帶上魚蛋牛雜和一埕茅台去探好友忌廉權, 可能過唔到公關果關, 被格在門外甩飛出去。

      刪除
  4. 看年齡,祖霍做硬 CJ,從這裁決看出,才智平庸之輩。

    回覆刪除
    回覆
    1. 又唔好咁講,五個終審庭法官一致認同,大家才智差不多,不分高底。
      如果早年的「代客上庭」,比佢地聽審又會有乜结會???都可以係另一門生意。

      刪除
  5. 十年前既新年
    有人手持閃卡
    係網路上識左好多「朋友」,仲係一哥叫大家去識既

    回覆刪除
  6. 估唔到標少出文扯咁恆.

    回覆刪除
  7. 真係黐筋,咁都叫friends!

    Terry

    回覆刪除
  8. 撇開判詞嘅邏輯唔講,監房探監先要個犯自己將探訪者名字交懲教署登記入電腦,電腦無名嘅係唔俾探嘅。所以當唔當個探訪者係“朋友”,主動權在個犯,個犯當得佢係“朋友”將佢個名放入list,懲教署又真係無必要者核實咖喎。個犯將探監公司職員個名落簿,即係接受探監公司職員探佢。在你情我願之下,我又睇唔到有乜嘢問題。大老爺舉例話不良於行阿婆叫個friend去探個孫,果個friend可能係一個阿孫唔識嘅阿伯,但佢代表阿婆去探阿孫,稱呼阿伯為friend其實都未必有錯嘅… 每次探監動則等上兩三個鐘,收人百二蚊去代探,其實係幾modest,絕對唔係會發達嘅生意…
    P.s. remand犯無錯係可以食“私家飯”,但“私家飯”係指犯人家人可以在荔枝角附近幾問指定嘅餐廳小廚事先付一個月嘅飯錢,個犯可以在獄中填寫表格在指定嘅飯款中order定一星期嘅晚餐,由餐廳直接送地去荔枝角俾個犯食。犯人家人朋友係唔可以自己煮飯攞俾個犯食嘅。所以,唔好意思啦標少,我哋呢啲“朋友”無得請你食鮑魚啦!

    回覆刪除
    回覆
    1. 前段我唔加入論點, 因為判詞本身講左, 我就係唔明標少做乜扯咁恆, 與現今兩邊議員行為如出一轍,「大和解」之夢遙不可及, 可能等南北韓統一比較快! (一笑~)

      後段是實情, 燒鵝髀是離地想像.

      亦十分好奇, 若是留言, 我不必太認真, 但標少是開文章, 竟完全無視「2b.附合法定探訪目的而提供精神及物質支援」這條件.
      像反對黨的立場文章, 措詞力度很強, 卻暫不住腳.

      刪除
    2. 2b這條要符合就要扭橫折曲朋友的定義嗎? 倒不如從條例着手, 擴闊訪客的涵蓋性而致訪客身分的選項擴闊, 終院這次走了歪路。

      刪除
    3. // 撇開判詞嘅邏輯唔講...
      係囉, 為什麼實際執行會 reduce 到這個模式, 當時的人又為何會這樣 structure 個 law?

      // 阿婆去唔到探孫
      well, exactly, 只要 B 和 C 傾好價, 就可以成為 A 的朋友, 儘管和 A 稻草重的友情元素都沒有, 而這正是案情裏出現的純粹商業元素/行為和過份解讀。幸勿為了合理化某事而膽前地矯揉了另一件事。(其實阿婆去唔到探孫這個例子確實有點不倫不類)

      問開又問, A 君可以做終院法官嗎? 都係由你講啫, 冇話唔得吖係咪?

      // 我哋呢啲“朋友”無得請你食鮑魚啦!
      都唔係冇可能架, 張大明已經以小見大地提出探監例正好要來一次大革新, 好快坐監可以披頭散髮!

      今時唔同往日, 坐監的意義都唔同左, 大半年前有個咁嘅調查:

      http://www.hkpf.org.hk/download/Youth%20Health%20in%20Special%20Situation_Chi_20170909_Final.pdf

      其實結論應該係話好多人冇資格做父母, 但咁講則既得失了家長又沒有了市場, 所以唔好意思, 又要挖一挖懲教署的祖墳嘞。

      刪除
    4. 正想comment
      完全同意本層
      俾錢人黎拜山
      想自己好過d/望落好睇

      既然拜山係個人權利
      係唔影響他人情況下
      睇唔到有咩問題

      我反而同意終院意見
      更覺得呢個可能就係立法原意
      用"朋友"呢個好wide既terms
      目的不限制犯人被探權利

      刪除
    5. 浮光掠影咁睇, 卻說事情始末是話搵唔到註腳 (para 31 Although...little assistance), 而且參考 1955/ 1957/ 1977 以至 2015 的銀河系(聯合國)乜東東對了解本土 1954 年出廠的 203 的 construction 發現居然也顯得腳軟無力 (para 32), 故此, adopt 了據說由大馬爺打穩地基的 flexible and open-minded approach (para 20). 說到這裏, 倒有點像老頭的 nokia 失靈了, 看見老朋友的唉瘋有聲有色, 用的不錯, 也湊熱鬧去果店買一部用用看.

      也需要說明 prisoners awaiting trial 是不用填朋友名字的 (para 12).

      其實要追究 234A, 就更應該深究同是 1954 的 234.

      Hansard 不會說的是, 當時的港督是有為的葛量洪, 新中國剛成立, 搞了抗美援朝, 三反五反, 土改, 難民湧入, 那些年監獄長是日治時在赤柱踎過的 Cuthbert James Norman, 監獄有人滿之患, 情況很差, 去赤柱(男)、荔枝角(女)探監都不容易, 芝麻灣要到 1957 才落成, 儒將 Mr. Norman 急不及待採取人性化開放管理, 所以 "family and friends" 這個很富 missionary 色彩的 concept 便很 flexible and open-mindedly 寫進法律中, 用意是鼓勵家人和友儕為罪犯的改過自新提供支持, 而不是找代理搞些生活日用品飯盒鉛筆擦字膠那種.

      又有點像 mother's day, 即便用轉數 app 過數俾阿媽, 代表送了花和一齊吃了飯, 還可以跟阿媽很 friend.

      刪除
    6. 標少也相當有影響力,一開始眾留言都是非理性形式.
      誇張失實,擺好捲起衫袖便打格局.

      刪除
  9. //喂, 畀擔保條友好過喇//
    喂, 標少, 不是FA諸公、荔枝角獄長的職權範圍啊!

    //譬如傷殘的祖母不能去探望, 咁都諗埋, 不愧是終審法院大老爺, 心思周密, 勝人一籌://
    標少連阿婆都蝦, 我都唔撐你啦~

    With all due respect to 標少, 今篇是小弟全盤不接受的文章, 罕有.

    回覆刪除
    回覆
    1. 我寫blog是抒發個人看法, 不是為了找共鳴。

      刪除
    2. 同隻鹿一樣喎!
      又係,人人都係!!

      刪除
    3. 標少, 由討論去左抒發、共鳴, 我跟唔上.
      撇開抒發因素, 此篇文章方式, 與hkba意見書感覺上是採用同一種態度, 問題不少.

      刪除
    4. 我亦少有地認同bbtw的意見

      刪除
  10. 將朋友的定義擴大到包括 "不相識也是朋友"又確是官字兩個口。
    這個裁決只會使人降低對終院的認同。

    正如周星馳電影說: "官喎"。

    回覆刪除
    回覆
    1. 標少開宗明義都講:「誰職級高, 誰就有道理」:-)

      刪除
    2. "這個裁決只會使人降低對終院的認同。"
      唔一定wo

      刪除
  11. 假如係今次判決之前
    假如家人俾錢,請一個註冊輔導員/心裡學家,用朋友去探家人/開解下佢
    係咪都犯法的

    回覆刪除
    回覆
    1. 今次犯法涉及misrepresentation, 你這問題我沒有研究prison rules找答案, 判詞也有提及第204條

      30. Other provisions in the same subdivision of the Prison Rules support the conclusion that reading “visitors” in Rule 203 literally and to convey a different meaning as to the category of persons who may visit prisoners generally under Rule 48 is unlikely to have been intended. Thus:

      (1) In Rule 205, which is headed “Right to see visitors for the purpose of finding bail” (emphasis added), it is provided that:

      “Every prisoner awaiting trial who is in prison in default of bail shall be permitted to see any of his relatives or friends, on any week day, at any reasonable hour, for the bona fide purpose of providing bail.”

      If the visiting regime under Rule 203 extends to persons other than “relatives and friends” it would be odd that a prisoner cannot have resort to that wider category of persons to assist him to find bail. Rule 205 also shows the word “visitors” (albeit appearing in a heading to a legislative provision[18]) being equated with “relatives or friends”.

      (2) In Rule 204, relating to visits from a private medical adviser for the purpose of his defence, it is provided that the choice of such adviser may be “by him or by his friends or legal adviser” and in Rule 206(1), concerning written communications, prisoners awaiting trial are entitled to be provided with a reasonable amount of paper and other writing materials “for [the] purpose of communicating with his friends or for preparing his defence”. It seems unlikely that the use of “friends” in Rules 204 and 206(1) was intended so as to exclude, for example, “relatives” of those prisoners awaiting trial and this suggests a broader purposive, rather than literal, approach to the construction of the term “friends”.

      刪除
  12. 急於自我表現的書獃子,冇哂 overview。三唔識七,收取報酬,是以有別於「朋友」的另一身分〈capacity:agent,contractor ...... whatever〉探監。下級法院,成班資深法官都諗錯,淨係你咁叻諗到。

    回覆刪除
    回覆
    1. 唔係表現
      我問,係因為我知道有人咁做
      但係一直唔知道咁係犯法既

      果個人本身有心理病,見開輔導
      入左 LCK 之後根本無人理佢
      入面既 CP 見佢只係為左寫報告
      家人唯有將個探訪quota俾個輔導員見佢,傾下計

      刪除
    2. QS 兄,不是說你,是看見大老爺,對「朋友」咁多聯想〈或幻想、妄想〉,有感而發。每件事都有 context,點關「learned friend」事。要佢 interpret 「兄弟」就大鑊。喺街撞到人,講聲「對唔住,大哥」,忽然多咗個兄弟。

      刪除
    3. 我曾經被人授托拜山,一次生兩次熟,幫到人我無所謂。

      刪除
  13. 律師O係香港永遠唔會無野做..成日都有案例提供作文題材

    回覆刪除
  14. 睇到佢話learned friend都冇真正友誼所以justify friend唔一定要有friendship真係笑咗

    回覆刪除
    回覆
    1. 人有左膠,佢係字膠。

      刪除
  15. 好朋友、壞朋友、大朋友、小朋友、學友、院友、囚友、滾友、賭友、男女朋友、老友、團友、新朋友、網友......,以上種種全是稱呼而已,終審大老爺並無不對喎!

    回覆刪除
    回覆
    1. 仲有損友 deficit friend, 仲唔 係? 除非 唔係!

      刪除
    2. 與deficit friend同一情況, 情敵、前妻、會計師、菲傭, 如果在押者想見/同意見, 如果在禁止之列....
      我唔識講, 唔識討論.

      刪除
  16. 想問下本身認左罪果幾個,係咪要再申請上訴
    之後就引用返呢個案例?

    案例係生效時間,係案例出既日子,定係用返案發/審訊時間決定的

    回覆刪除
  17. Oh yes, the co defendants in this case or under similar circumstances prosecuted can apply for appeal out of time. The appeal will be unobjected by the prosecution and allowed by the court. These cases were prosecuted at around the same time. The CFA decision will no doubt applicable to them regardless the minor time difference.

    回覆刪除
  18. 朋友不但可以分享甜相, 還可以收錢探監, 朋友萬歲!!

    回覆刪除
  19. 要吃私家餐 必需要根據指定餐廳裡面的 weekly menu .....啤酒不可以進去 其他有機會有.....

    老大 探監 *哭* 已經是兔兔的法律專長之一了 無他 探了幾十次了.....

    回覆刪除
    回覆
    1. 章:

      234A PDF 標題: 《監獄規則》 憲報編號: E.R. 3 of 2015
      條: 192 條文標題: 有權自備食物 版本日期: 12/11/2015

      每名候審囚犯均可自備或在適當時間收受食物及啤酒。如不自行供應食物,則須收受監獄的膳食。

      兔子, 我講青邊鮑魚, 龍蝦伊麵, 再加燒鵝髀, 是顯示你對我不會吝嗇, 開個玩笑, 至於啤酒卻非杜撰, 上面引了出處。

      刪除
    2. Prison Rule 192的英文版用了malt liquor, 中文是啤酒。

      刪除
    3. very interesting!!!! I will go and find out more.

      刪除
  20. 標少呢餐嗡得就嗡.....

    回覆刪除
  21. 小見標少咁既態度
    平時望落係一步步推
    今次就係先立論後用好多個人情感放落去
    不愧, 斷估.......

    回覆刪除
  22. 中文權威辭典「辭海」解釋,朋友是「同學;志同道合的人。後泛指交誼深厚的人。」 「代客探監」服務明顯唔入傳統「朋友」的定義。 終院的判決是從犯人著想,強行改變改變「朋友」的定義。 但係,佢地冇考慮改變定義後,方便黑社會派人向囚犯傳話,加重懲教署負擔。

    回覆刪除
  23. 「後泛指交誼深厚的人」...... 相當不符現世情況, 竟然是反方向發展?
    辭海咩年份版本?

    回覆刪除
  24. 標少,
    朋友是應該是入獄前已經認識 , 現在這些人明顯不是. 懲教署可否要他們各自表明如何認識.合理後, 才讓他們相見?
    bill hk

    回覆刪除
    回覆
    1. 這叫做"入獄前已經認識的朋友".
      將來或可修例如此. 但目的及需要性呢? 倉內認識已出獄的朋友、後來認識的筆友, 為什麼需要排除? 要討論.

      刪除
    2. 在受 懲教署管制地方, 應該貧富平等. 但現在有人用金錢可以獲得超待遇,這沒有問題嗎?
      BILL HK

      刪除
    3. 在受法治管制地方, 應該貧富平等. 但現在有人, 特别是富豪用金錢便可以獲得超級律師待遇,這沒有問題嗎?

      刪除
    4. 我唔覺得係超待遇
      只要果d人跟返規矩,無帶到違禁品入去
      其實唔應該限制俾錢探監

      只係我覺得應該修例規管返呢d情況,而唔係強行將佢地歸類做朋友

      刪除
  25. 被探視,到底是要給予犯人權利, 還是要限制他們?

    回覆刪除
    回覆
    1. 在受 懲教署管制地方,犯人權利, 應該貧富平等. 但現在有人用金錢可以獲得超待遇,這沒有問題嗎?
      BILL HK

      刪除
    2. 為什麼是超待遇? 你真的相信是青邊鮑魚、龍蝦伊麵、燒鵝髀嗎?

      刪除
  26. https://hk.news.appledaily.com/local/daily/article/20180519/20395538

    呢d case,雖然暫時無表面證據有人被影響
    不過已經被點相,就算真係陪審團被恐嚇,都唔會有人認啦
    被告可唔可以用呢d做理由上訴重審?

    回覆刪除